Prior to writing my book in 2020, I wrote an incredibly long Facebook post detailing a variety of statistics and then at the end gave a very brief conclusion based on the statistics that I researched. These were statistics revolving around race in a variety of areas and this was done very purposefully.
You are not alone. Some people are simply out of touch with reality and utterly impervious to rational discussion. They prefer to be guided by their emotions; their narrative; their unfounded assumptions. It is painful even to attempt discussion after a certain point. Just withdraw.
No choice! It's a bit like addiction. Rehab isn't going to work unless your own mind is in it--it doesn't matter what all your friends and family think you should do.
There is a difference between someone misunderstanding you and someone unwilling to understand you. The former is in good faith, the latter not so much.
Forget about the people in the latter group because they aren’t worth your time.
When you have your own opinions untethered from groupthink, you will initially be a nomad but as you have found, you will discover new people to enrich your life and be of service to others. Years ago, I had a mentor in the area of law. He was a liberal from NY and part of a progressive synagogue. We were very close until I started expressing views that didn't align with his. He told me that as a woman, who was a liberal, I wasn't supposed to support educational vouchers, etc. etc. I was shocked at the time and bewildered that being a liberal woman meant I wasn't supposed to think for myself. It caused a fracture which is a good thing. He later was indicted for a scam against desperate homeowners.
Unfortunately, he wasn't alone! When I still practiced law, Thomas Girardi was a well-respected SoCal plaintiff's attorney with a public persona as a good guy. He even had a local radio show 'Champions of Justice' on how to help the downtrodden using a comforting 'pained' voice. He ended up stealing millions from clients. In his defense, he is using the same scam as my former mentor arguing mental incapacity. Maybe it is because it is LA and too many people think the script they are reading is actually who they are.
Heterodox views are tough to have these days. Our culture is obsessed with a binary “good vs evil” narrative that leaves no room for questioning or subtlety. If you say something that I don’t agree with, you are “evil” and fighting you is “good”. I grieve with you for the loss of friends/family who can’t accept our diversity of ideas.
Nothing that is important, or will be remembered, has ever come out of groupthink.
Perceptions are hard to change unless you can have an open mind. Some people won’t change old perceptions because they don’t want to admit even to themselves that they were wrong. You can only agree to disagree and move on. Enjoyed your article.
This is so wise. It’s hard to accept when people you know deliberately misunderstand you, but it is really just about them. I’ve had to come to the same conclusion and just let it be. But I love this: “I talk about how we are just as capable as anyone else and not feeble. To me, that’s the real “pro-black” position.”
This goes hand-in-hand with a previous article you wrote about a former friend, a Dutchman, who said to you "this is my last attempt to save you." At least he wasn't a relative but it's still hard to have someone you like drop a bomb like that. That is the pinnacle of hubris. I'm not angry at any for how they vote or how they believe we can make life better. I figure others do the same thing as me and listen to arguments and try and judge the character of the person/politician speaking, and then they vote for the person they believe will do the best work.
A lot of us have experienced seeing our friends or loved ones being corrupted by political groupthink, not wanting to stray from from the herd of the ‘enlightened’ crowd. It amped up significantly during the Trump years and continues today.
When the ridiculous controversy over Dave’s recent “transphobic” Netflix special erupted (well before it aired) I remember thinking “what are they so upset about?” He doesn’t exclude anyone from being a target of his humor.
I was having a conversation with my brother who was/ is? a big Chappelle fan and Dave’s special was mentioned. My brother, a bright guy, said Dave was “punching down” at the trans community and didn’t find it funny, kind of implying that perhaps since I enjoyed it, I must be a phobe of some sort. He hadn’t seen the special, but said he’d read enough about it that he had no interest in watching it. It made me wince.
So yeah, I guess we all better get used to this crap until some sort of mass reckoning awakens us which I don’t see coming any time soon.
I have written about how you cannot change the way other people perceive you in the past.
They will always (likely not consciously) label you as a “persecutor” if they are caught up in the Drama Triangle and you don’t agree with their Drama Triangle perspective.
You have no control over that and it’s best to come to terms with this fact of life. Then you will get thicker skin and stop caring about impressing them or at least not offending them, and care more about interacting with the logical people outside of that drama who will listen to you and ask what you mean when they don’t understand or need clarification.
I hear you loud and clear. I'm more than fine with people disagreeing with me, but I truly hate when they disagree with a version of me that exists only in their imaginations, a "me" who makes arguments, takes positions, and has thoughts and feelings in no way like mine. If you think about it, what could be a better example of hubris than operating from the assumption that you know what someone else truly thinks and feels better than they know themselves? These are the people who don't ask what you think; they TELL you what you think.
It's particularly disturbing to be accused of hating people. The fact that we may disagree with each other in some way, either deeply or superficially, doesn't in any way imply hatred. But the belief that we hate those with whom we disagree does say quite a bit about those who hold that belief, particularly when they demonstrate such hatred toward someone who is simply attempting an exchange of views, a reasonable debate.
That said, I notice something else in these kinds of encounters. People in this culture, especially those who marinate in mainstream media, have a fixed belief that we are all either "fans" of public figures or enemies of them. It's unlikely that anyone would actually agree with all of the positions of any public figure, but if you agree with a single stance held by someone they consider an enemy, then you are a "fan" of that person and can be assumed to agree with everything they have ever said. It's kind of like the tired old thing about Hitler making the trains run on time. Well, sane people enjoy having the trains run on time, which in no way implies that they like anything else Hitler did, but if you were to point that out you'd be accused of being a "fan" of Hitler, and, perhaps, being Hitler yourself!
The other unfortunate thing in encounters with these people is that no exchange of views is possible. I would love to dig down into their beliefs and the information from which they derived them, but there is no information (at least, none they can or will put into words) and no beliefs or principles in the sense of something that can be countered or affirmed. What they do have aplenty is playground name calling and accusations, all of which are intended to frighten their victims into silence for fear of the usual repercussions. Once they start calling you transphobe, homophobe, Islamophobe, bigot, etc., the discussion is over - to the extent there ever was one.
People who have various combinations of this "fan or enemy" belief system, inability to recognize a logical argument, and/or playground name calling affliction cannot be reached by any reasonable means. If they're relatives and loved ones, your only option is to adamantly refuse to enter into these struggle sessions or accept their departure from your life. We can all still hope that these ideologically entranced people will come to their senses some day.
I've called that (when people argue against something you never said) fighting with a ghost. They're not fighting with me, since I don't believe those things. And no one else in the world probably does. They're simply fighting with an imaginary being.
What it is is them de-humanizing and demonizing "you" for a strawman argument because they wouldn't win a logical argument (and thus wouldn't feel superior) if they let you speak rationally with them.
They have black or white thinking, also called "splitting" and they do it because they're stuck in the Drama Triangle constantly casting people as either "allies" (saviors), persecutors, or victims. They can't see people as having any sort of "gray" in them.
In general the only time you will not be misunderstood is when you are preaching to the choir. Anything that deviates from the narrative will not be tolerated.
Adam what a powerful realization and approach to communication. I’ve also found that misunderstanding is a given cuz our pluralistic diverse circumstances define our shared words via millions of lived associations every day. One Meaning is difficult to come by. We fool ourselves thinking we share exact same meanings and then attach identity to those varied distinct meanings not realizing our idiosyncratic definition will not necessarily be shared by everyone around us. Then we blow up at each other. This is why I love rhetoric where it is the “study of misunderstanding and its remedies” (IA Richards) and not only Aristotelian persuasion. And I find that misunderstanding is the potential rich beginning to renewed understanding for myself and my interlocutors (if they are open to ever so slightly revising their knowledge of themselves and the world of course). Amazing piece!
What I appreciate about your expression of thoughts, ideas & positions is the balance that you project. You don’t tend to take a side but really look to sort through your thinking & independently, based on your moral compass, describe where you stand. Bravo!
You are not alone. Some people are simply out of touch with reality and utterly impervious to rational discussion. They prefer to be guided by their emotions; their narrative; their unfounded assumptions. It is painful even to attempt discussion after a certain point. Just withdraw.
I agree. Let them believe a lie if it makes them feel better.
No choice! It's a bit like addiction. Rehab isn't going to work unless your own mind is in it--it doesn't matter what all your friends and family think you should do.
There is a difference between someone misunderstanding you and someone unwilling to understand you. The former is in good faith, the latter not so much.
Forget about the people in the latter group because they aren’t worth your time.
When you have your own opinions untethered from groupthink, you will initially be a nomad but as you have found, you will discover new people to enrich your life and be of service to others. Years ago, I had a mentor in the area of law. He was a liberal from NY and part of a progressive synagogue. We were very close until I started expressing views that didn't align with his. He told me that as a woman, who was a liberal, I wasn't supposed to support educational vouchers, etc. etc. I was shocked at the time and bewildered that being a liberal woman meant I wasn't supposed to think for myself. It caused a fracture which is a good thing. He later was indicted for a scam against desperate homeowners.
Wow. I didn't see that coming.
Unfortunately, he wasn't alone! When I still practiced law, Thomas Girardi was a well-respected SoCal plaintiff's attorney with a public persona as a good guy. He even had a local radio show 'Champions of Justice' on how to help the downtrodden using a comforting 'pained' voice. He ended up stealing millions from clients. In his defense, he is using the same scam as my former mentor arguing mental incapacity. Maybe it is because it is LA and too many people think the script they are reading is actually who they are.
Heterodox views are tough to have these days. Our culture is obsessed with a binary “good vs evil” narrative that leaves no room for questioning or subtlety. If you say something that I don’t agree with, you are “evil” and fighting you is “good”. I grieve with you for the loss of friends/family who can’t accept our diversity of ideas.
Nothing that is important, or will be remembered, has ever come out of groupthink.
Perceptions are hard to change unless you can have an open mind. Some people won’t change old perceptions because they don’t want to admit even to themselves that they were wrong. You can only agree to disagree and move on. Enjoyed your article.
I agree with you.
Thank you!
Excellent articulation ... words of solace for when one strives to be rational, objective and fair and ends up incurring wild wrath ... :)
Thank you 😊
This is so wise. It’s hard to accept when people you know deliberately misunderstand you, but it is really just about them. I’ve had to come to the same conclusion and just let it be. But I love this: “I talk about how we are just as capable as anyone else and not feeble. To me, that’s the real “pro-black” position.”
Thank you!
This goes hand-in-hand with a previous article you wrote about a former friend, a Dutchman, who said to you "this is my last attempt to save you." At least he wasn't a relative but it's still hard to have someone you like drop a bomb like that. That is the pinnacle of hubris. I'm not angry at any for how they vote or how they believe we can make life better. I figure others do the same thing as me and listen to arguments and try and judge the character of the person/politician speaking, and then they vote for the person they believe will do the best work.
Yes, it's very similar to that situation.
How does it feel to be a couple of steps out of the mainstream? You get used to it eventually, wear it as a badge of honor. Good article, thank you
I definitely do. Thank you!
Exactly. Be Proud to be misunderstood! You would be boring if you were predictable.
A lot of us have experienced seeing our friends or loved ones being corrupted by political groupthink, not wanting to stray from from the herd of the ‘enlightened’ crowd. It amped up significantly during the Trump years and continues today.
When the ridiculous controversy over Dave’s recent “transphobic” Netflix special erupted (well before it aired) I remember thinking “what are they so upset about?” He doesn’t exclude anyone from being a target of his humor.
I was having a conversation with my brother who was/ is? a big Chappelle fan and Dave’s special was mentioned. My brother, a bright guy, said Dave was “punching down” at the trans community and didn’t find it funny, kind of implying that perhaps since I enjoyed it, I must be a phobe of some sort. He hadn’t seen the special, but said he’d read enough about it that he had no interest in watching it. It made me wince.
So yeah, I guess we all better get used to this crap until some sort of mass reckoning awakens us which I don’t see coming any time soon.
I have written about how you cannot change the way other people perceive you in the past.
They will always (likely not consciously) label you as a “persecutor” if they are caught up in the Drama Triangle and you don’t agree with their Drama Triangle perspective.
You have no control over that and it’s best to come to terms with this fact of life. Then you will get thicker skin and stop caring about impressing them or at least not offending them, and care more about interacting with the logical people outside of that drama who will listen to you and ask what you mean when they don’t understand or need clarification.
I hear you loud and clear. I'm more than fine with people disagreeing with me, but I truly hate when they disagree with a version of me that exists only in their imaginations, a "me" who makes arguments, takes positions, and has thoughts and feelings in no way like mine. If you think about it, what could be a better example of hubris than operating from the assumption that you know what someone else truly thinks and feels better than they know themselves? These are the people who don't ask what you think; they TELL you what you think.
It's particularly disturbing to be accused of hating people. The fact that we may disagree with each other in some way, either deeply or superficially, doesn't in any way imply hatred. But the belief that we hate those with whom we disagree does say quite a bit about those who hold that belief, particularly when they demonstrate such hatred toward someone who is simply attempting an exchange of views, a reasonable debate.
That said, I notice something else in these kinds of encounters. People in this culture, especially those who marinate in mainstream media, have a fixed belief that we are all either "fans" of public figures or enemies of them. It's unlikely that anyone would actually agree with all of the positions of any public figure, but if you agree with a single stance held by someone they consider an enemy, then you are a "fan" of that person and can be assumed to agree with everything they have ever said. It's kind of like the tired old thing about Hitler making the trains run on time. Well, sane people enjoy having the trains run on time, which in no way implies that they like anything else Hitler did, but if you were to point that out you'd be accused of being a "fan" of Hitler, and, perhaps, being Hitler yourself!
The other unfortunate thing in encounters with these people is that no exchange of views is possible. I would love to dig down into their beliefs and the information from which they derived them, but there is no information (at least, none they can or will put into words) and no beliefs or principles in the sense of something that can be countered or affirmed. What they do have aplenty is playground name calling and accusations, all of which are intended to frighten their victims into silence for fear of the usual repercussions. Once they start calling you transphobe, homophobe, Islamophobe, bigot, etc., the discussion is over - to the extent there ever was one.
People who have various combinations of this "fan or enemy" belief system, inability to recognize a logical argument, and/or playground name calling affliction cannot be reached by any reasonable means. If they're relatives and loved ones, your only option is to adamantly refuse to enter into these struggle sessions or accept their departure from your life. We can all still hope that these ideologically entranced people will come to their senses some day.
I've called that (when people argue against something you never said) fighting with a ghost. They're not fighting with me, since I don't believe those things. And no one else in the world probably does. They're simply fighting with an imaginary being.
What it is is them de-humanizing and demonizing "you" for a strawman argument because they wouldn't win a logical argument (and thus wouldn't feel superior) if they let you speak rationally with them.
They have black or white thinking, also called "splitting" and they do it because they're stuck in the Drama Triangle constantly casting people as either "allies" (saviors), persecutors, or victims. They can't see people as having any sort of "gray" in them.
In general the only time you will not be misunderstood is when you are preaching to the choir. Anything that deviates from the narrative will not be tolerated.
Adam what a powerful realization and approach to communication. I’ve also found that misunderstanding is a given cuz our pluralistic diverse circumstances define our shared words via millions of lived associations every day. One Meaning is difficult to come by. We fool ourselves thinking we share exact same meanings and then attach identity to those varied distinct meanings not realizing our idiosyncratic definition will not necessarily be shared by everyone around us. Then we blow up at each other. This is why I love rhetoric where it is the “study of misunderstanding and its remedies” (IA Richards) and not only Aristotelian persuasion. And I find that misunderstanding is the potential rich beginning to renewed understanding for myself and my interlocutors (if they are open to ever so slightly revising their knowledge of themselves and the world of course). Amazing piece!
What I appreciate about your expression of thoughts, ideas & positions is the balance that you project. You don’t tend to take a side but really look to sort through your thinking & independently, based on your moral compass, describe where you stand. Bravo!
Thank you 😊
Great piece that really reveals the axiom of our current reality:
“You cannot reason a person out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.”