Thanks Adam. This piece really spoke to me. I’m English btw.
A couple of things.
On the bleach front, I have noticed that a regular reply when you point out Trump hasn’t actually said the ‘something’ you were literally just told he definitely said, is just a shrug, and the line ’Well it’s the sort of thing he would say’.
And secondly, I’ve experienced a similar thing to ‘Your boy Tucker’.
Here in England I get ‘Your guy Farage’. Don’t get me wrong. I like some of Farage’s policies but I’ve never expressed a preference for him or Reform in conversation. I prefer to talk about specific policies, or issues. But the tendency is to immediately
‘Lump me in’ with all the perceived ‘baddies’.
That way it is easier to dismiss any points I make as simply illegitimate.
There’s loads more I could say on all this, but I’ll leave it there.
Thank you so much for writing this Adam, it is very helpful. Many feel justified in having and treating others contemptuously if we don’t get in line. In my case, it’s been family, and my daughter (a mid thirties) who cut me out which makes things very tricky. Thank you for putting into words how I feel while still being able to keep it in proper perspective. I often think about writing my daughter to tell her how I feel, while still framing it as “we disagree”, not “you are bad and I am good”. I also would not turn people away just because they are socialist. However, dialogue is not allowed, and only people with the accept viewpoints are allowed to speak, it is very disrespectful, and people start thinking they can treat you with contempt, then it’s not nice anymore.
As an urban white woman, I've been on the receiving end of that condescending attitude - often by white males, but years ago by a black man who assumed I was a dumb young thing to be played. I even had the 'your boy' encounter. A friend lost her best friend because she questioned masks saying they were ineffective. Her friend agreed but broke the friendship because she believed the performative art was what one did for the collective good. Her friend is a well to do socialist.
As for Trump, I watched what became 'bleach.' At first, I thought he was referencing the use of ozone water, but later realized he was probably discussing chlorine dioxide, which is indeed a very useful product to use that does have bleaching-type properties. Dr. Pierre Kory just published a book on it.
I would like to hear about your view on the cage match between Rep. Sewell and RFK, Jr. He, I assume, using statistics, pointed out that Black young males are medicated at a very high dosage, and it needs to be addressed. He also discussed how those addicted to opiates, etc., should be sent to farms to rehabilitate their health and connection with nature. In a posted video segment he did reference that they will have to be re-parented but it seemed like he was referencing the person undergoing rehab. Considering he was a heroin addict, I think he knows a thing or two about addiction. And the claims he doesn't have a medical license is so ludicrous. Any attorney working in that space has to know the medicine and often better than doctors who are not experts. If what he says is true, why can't they be discussed. How are we going to help anyone if we live by lies?
I like to debate politics but the second someone rolls their eyes or becomes condescending, then I've lost respect and either become argumentative or walk away. I've experienced that condescension too many times to count.
What is interesting is that many who proclaim to be 'left' have pretty conservative views. They don't seem to make the connection between their voting patterns and the results. It is like someone who keeps eating cake and confused why they are getting fat.
You're wise, I think. I no longer give my time to argue with people who are (per my spider sense, and that's pretty accurate) suddenly reaching out with no open agenda but clearly have a secret agenda. They aren't worth the time. They don't really want to be friends - they want to score points in some fashion if only to be able to say "well I did TRY." No, they're not - they're not sincere. I no longer try to engage and convince people - that's a job (in my case) for the younger and more energetic.
I had something similar happen this morning. My old best friend (we’re political opposites and his are to the left) texted about a person from our grammar school days. We went back and forth about the old days and people from then. It was good. I’ve kept my distance since he made some nasty comments around Covid time. That’s why he’s my “old” best friend. We text and that’s for the most part been it.
Anyway, I made the mistake of sending him a Substack column by Jay Mariotti about the White Sox and The Atlantic. It centered around the ridiculous promotion the Sox are having in giving out papal “hats” with Sox logos. Frankly, it disgusts me and I said so. I didn’t think twice about sending it to a fellow Catholic Schooler. The response was not what I expected, although in retrospect I probably should have. He felt that it was a nice gimmick, what’s the big deal. Then he proceeded to send the Trump meme of being the savior (I agree, not got). But then it was Trump this, Trump that. It was the classic if the left does this, it’s ok, but if the right, especially Trump, does it, it’s terrible. I pretty much let it go. But he then got the knife in the back (again) in sending a link from one of the news stations about how the Pope was happy the Cubs lost in last year’s playoffs. I just replied, “yeah, I saw it and wasn’t impressed”. What I didn’t say was I didn’t watch the video or read anything on the link, the headline was enough. That was the end of it.
Didn’t mean to ramble, but, it’s a lot like your situation and maybe I need to answer less of his texts. This isn’t the first time I’ve gone through something like this with him.
This essay resonated with me because I experienced something similar during COVID. I had made a friend out of a tragedy that we both had endured. Even though we were 3,000 miles apart, we talked often across a range of subjects and I grew to really love her. We didn’t talk politics much but we were both about the same on the political spectrum.
Eventually she succumbed to TDS, and it became so severe that I was tiptoeing around the most benign subjects that I KNEW we would have agreed about prior to Trump. When I tried to discuss COVID in terms of plain old common sense and a little thing called FREEDOM, she was all in on the hysteria and there was no questioning anything. When she told me that she was fine with mandating a shot I did not need and thereby restricting my ability to travel or dine out or WORK a job, I can only say that I couldn’t get past it.
I guess I could go back to walking on eggshells but politics is interesting to me and I am not going to become nervous about supporting our president or one of his policies. I am friends with her brother and he assured me that her hatred for Trump is more visceral and irrational than ever. I realize now my problem is not that she’s against Trump - it’s that she can no longer analyze a point of view or trustworthy information without making it about him. I’m all about debating and discussing but you can’t debate and discuss with people like her. It isn’t about an IDEA. It’s about a PERSON. That’s not the kind of conversation that teaches or persuades.
I can relate to your experiences. Thankfully, I have 3 democrat former colleagues/friends who've not become jerks over politics. But there are quite a few others who I no longer talk to. It's been quite an eye-opener to see what little it took to manipulate people into hysteria and a willingness to drop friends and family.
Thanks Adam. This piece really spoke to me. I’m English btw.
A couple of things.
On the bleach front, I have noticed that a regular reply when you point out Trump hasn’t actually said the ‘something’ you were literally just told he definitely said, is just a shrug, and the line ’Well it’s the sort of thing he would say’.
And secondly, I’ve experienced a similar thing to ‘Your boy Tucker’.
Here in England I get ‘Your guy Farage’. Don’t get me wrong. I like some of Farage’s policies but I’ve never expressed a preference for him or Reform in conversation. I prefer to talk about specific policies, or issues. But the tendency is to immediately
‘Lump me in’ with all the perceived ‘baddies’.
That way it is easier to dismiss any points I make as simply illegitimate.
There’s loads more I could say on all this, but I’ll leave it there.
Anyway. Great piece. 👍
’Well it’s the sort of thing he would say’ great point. That is what they do say!
Thank you so much for writing this Adam, it is very helpful. Many feel justified in having and treating others contemptuously if we don’t get in line. In my case, it’s been family, and my daughter (a mid thirties) who cut me out which makes things very tricky. Thank you for putting into words how I feel while still being able to keep it in proper perspective. I often think about writing my daughter to tell her how I feel, while still framing it as “we disagree”, not “you are bad and I am good”. I also would not turn people away just because they are socialist. However, dialogue is not allowed, and only people with the accept viewpoints are allowed to speak, it is very disrespectful, and people start thinking they can treat you with contempt, then it’s not nice anymore.
As an urban white woman, I've been on the receiving end of that condescending attitude - often by white males, but years ago by a black man who assumed I was a dumb young thing to be played. I even had the 'your boy' encounter. A friend lost her best friend because she questioned masks saying they were ineffective. Her friend agreed but broke the friendship because she believed the performative art was what one did for the collective good. Her friend is a well to do socialist.
As for Trump, I watched what became 'bleach.' At first, I thought he was referencing the use of ozone water, but later realized he was probably discussing chlorine dioxide, which is indeed a very useful product to use that does have bleaching-type properties. Dr. Pierre Kory just published a book on it.
I would like to hear about your view on the cage match between Rep. Sewell and RFK, Jr. He, I assume, using statistics, pointed out that Black young males are medicated at a very high dosage, and it needs to be addressed. He also discussed how those addicted to opiates, etc., should be sent to farms to rehabilitate their health and connection with nature. In a posted video segment he did reference that they will have to be re-parented but it seemed like he was referencing the person undergoing rehab. Considering he was a heroin addict, I think he knows a thing or two about addiction. And the claims he doesn't have a medical license is so ludicrous. Any attorney working in that space has to know the medicine and often better than doctors who are not experts. If what he says is true, why can't they be discussed. How are we going to help anyone if we live by lies?
I like to debate politics but the second someone rolls their eyes or becomes condescending, then I've lost respect and either become argumentative or walk away. I've experienced that condescension too many times to count.
What is interesting is that many who proclaim to be 'left' have pretty conservative views. They don't seem to make the connection between their voting patterns and the results. It is like someone who keeps eating cake and confused why they are getting fat.
Cool, now you can just forward him the article. Some people are there for a season, others for a reason. He was a muse.
You're wise, I think. I no longer give my time to argue with people who are (per my spider sense, and that's pretty accurate) suddenly reaching out with no open agenda but clearly have a secret agenda. They aren't worth the time. They don't really want to be friends - they want to score points in some fashion if only to be able to say "well I did TRY." No, they're not - they're not sincere. I no longer try to engage and convince people - that's a job (in my case) for the younger and more energetic.
I had something similar happen this morning. My old best friend (we’re political opposites and his are to the left) texted about a person from our grammar school days. We went back and forth about the old days and people from then. It was good. I’ve kept my distance since he made some nasty comments around Covid time. That’s why he’s my “old” best friend. We text and that’s for the most part been it.
Anyway, I made the mistake of sending him a Substack column by Jay Mariotti about the White Sox and The Atlantic. It centered around the ridiculous promotion the Sox are having in giving out papal “hats” with Sox logos. Frankly, it disgusts me and I said so. I didn’t think twice about sending it to a fellow Catholic Schooler. The response was not what I expected, although in retrospect I probably should have. He felt that it was a nice gimmick, what’s the big deal. Then he proceeded to send the Trump meme of being the savior (I agree, not got). But then it was Trump this, Trump that. It was the classic if the left does this, it’s ok, but if the right, especially Trump, does it, it’s terrible. I pretty much let it go. But he then got the knife in the back (again) in sending a link from one of the news stations about how the Pope was happy the Cubs lost in last year’s playoffs. I just replied, “yeah, I saw it and wasn’t impressed”. What I didn’t say was I didn’t watch the video or read anything on the link, the headline was enough. That was the end of it.
Didn’t mean to ramble, but, it’s a lot like your situation and maybe I need to answer less of his texts. This isn’t the first time I’ve gone through something like this with him.
I've lost friends here in Ireland too.
They love putting people into groups.
They love their echo chambers
They'll ignore it.
This essay resonated with me because I experienced something similar during COVID. I had made a friend out of a tragedy that we both had endured. Even though we were 3,000 miles apart, we talked often across a range of subjects and I grew to really love her. We didn’t talk politics much but we were both about the same on the political spectrum.
Eventually she succumbed to TDS, and it became so severe that I was tiptoeing around the most benign subjects that I KNEW we would have agreed about prior to Trump. When I tried to discuss COVID in terms of plain old common sense and a little thing called FREEDOM, she was all in on the hysteria and there was no questioning anything. When she told me that she was fine with mandating a shot I did not need and thereby restricting my ability to travel or dine out or WORK a job, I can only say that I couldn’t get past it.
I guess I could go back to walking on eggshells but politics is interesting to me and I am not going to become nervous about supporting our president or one of his policies. I am friends with her brother and he assured me that her hatred for Trump is more visceral and irrational than ever. I realize now my problem is not that she’s against Trump - it’s that she can no longer analyze a point of view or trustworthy information without making it about him. I’m all about debating and discussing but you can’t debate and discuss with people like her. It isn’t about an IDEA. It’s about a PERSON. That’s not the kind of conversation that teaches or persuades.
I can relate to your experiences. Thankfully, I have 3 democrat former colleagues/friends who've not become jerks over politics. But there are quite a few others who I no longer talk to. It's been quite an eye-opener to see what little it took to manipulate people into hysteria and a willingness to drop friends and family.
Instead of not replying, why not send him a link to this post?
One of the best things I ever learned was to recognize toxic people and limit my exposure thereto.